2e Monster Manual "Review" Electric Boogaloo

Count Arioch the 28th · Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:17 pm

I wonder how many angry e-mails Shadzar send to Somethingawful about their TruthMedia reviews?

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:07 pm

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Also, forgot to request Cloakers; IIRC their Ecology section (I think it was Ecology, something in their entry made them out to be like the most mysterious creatures ever) was fucking ridiculous in 2e.

Even crazier than 1E ixitxachitl?

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:26 am

Avoraciopoctules wrote:
Darth Rabbitt wrote:Also, forgot to request Cloakers; IIRC their Ecology section (I think it was Ecology, something in their entry made them out to be like the most mysterious creatures ever) was fucking ridiculous in 2e.
Even crazier than 1E ixitxachitl?

I think it was their Habitat/Society, actually.

But it was like "Cloakers have no known society, and their mindsets are completely alien. Their language cannot be understood by anyone but the wisest of sages who have devoted a life of study to it."

But I think that's crazier than "ixitxachitl are led by vampire clerics"

EDIT: Accidentally posted before I finished typing.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:53 am

shadzar wrote:I keep coming back because this sounds like the same shit and drivel on the Something Awful reviews... a pile of ignorance without a point to it I am a complete berke.

So this, in other words.

Seriously, you didn't even answer my question; if anything, you just gave yourself all the more reason to stay away and ignore me. I mean, I know that's your MO, and I shouldn't be surprised, but still. My only guess as to why is that you are one hell of a retard and enjoy people insulting you.

Moving on...

I'm gonna do a very special one today, kiddies. Today, I'm gonna do...

Dinosaurs!

Cuando despertó, el dinosaurio todavía estaba allí.*

- El Dinosaurio, the world's shortest short story, by Augusto Monterroso, Obras completas (Y otros cuentos), 1959

Everybody loves Dinosaurs!, right? I know do! Fuckin' love those little giant-ass scaly mutherfuckers.

(Note: This entry is best read by reading the word Dinosaur! like a little kid saying it in a whispering, almost reverential breath, with particular accentation on "saur", so that it's pronounced like: DyNOsoar! This is completely and utterly important, I assure you.

Also, I'm not going to go too into detail about how outdated the scientific facts are, mainly 'cause I'm too lazy to look up current paleontological theories. I'm not the Paleontologist Society. Have Frank or someone do that.)

There are several sub-listings, nine in all. They are:

Ankylosaurus

Deinonychus

Diplodocus

Elasmosaurus

Lamborghinisaurus

Pteranodon

Stegosaurus

Triceratops

We have a T. Rex!

and maybe more.

The entry starts off by saying that dinosaurs live either on other planes or lost continents. Real original.

It then goes on to try and be all scientific like by referencing the fact that Dinosaur! means "Terrible Lizard" (which is misleading because Dinosaurs aren't actually in the lizard family). They get even more scientificky by saying their are two types of Dinosaurs!: Saurischian ("lizard-hipped"), and ornithischian ("bird-hipped"), named for describing their sexy hips.

Representing the sexy lizard-hips are the carnivorus theropods, like the mighty morpin' T Rex. and the honkey-assed vegan sauropods, like the bitchin' diplodocus. God, that's fun to say. Diplodocus. Di-plod-o-cus. Jesus, just rolls right off the tongue. Someday, I'm naming my kid that: General Aarakocra Diplodocus Burnside Stella. Honest-to-god.

Unless it's a girl. Then she'd be Ella Diplodocus Ixitxachitl Stella. Or "Ix" for short.

...Where was I? Oh! Right! Dinosaurs!!

Anyway, there is then some stuff about... wait, aboleths ain't Dinosaurs!. I got the wrong damn page. Just a sec... I'm now writing whatever comes into my head. Oh god, please, Whatever, don't ever come in my head. Oh, here's Dinosaurs!. ...how saurischians also include ornithomimosaurs (I think I spelled that wrong), as well as the related dromaeosaurs, represented by West Side Dionysus.

Apparently, many ornithischians have armor, hornys, and/or both. COOL! they include certopsians (triceratops), and ornithopods (such as the hadrosaurs: lamborghinisaurus, anklesaurus, and stegomyeggosaurus).

Dinosaurs! come in many sizes and shapes, sometimes both. The ones in this book are "generally large". Bigger species have drab colours, because being big means your boring and don't care about how you look and gayer than Bruno Mars and Ke$ha combined, while smaller dinos are more colourful because they're most likely leading "alternative lifestyles".

Most Dinosaurs! have a skin which is all pebbly-like, and some species have fur, feathers, and/or those little "Bejazzled" gemstones imbedded in their skull.

NEXT: Combat, habitat, and ecology. Then the individual dinos.

'Cause I feel like breaking it up because it's my thread and I am GOD.

But not now because I can't keep my head from banging into itself.

To quote Blogger Beware!: SOMETIMES THERE ARE UPDATES

G'night, friends and neighbors.

(Hey! This is my 666th post! AWESOME!)

*Translated: "When he awoke, the dinosaur was still there." Really, that's the whole thing.
Also, I'm putting footnotes to the right now, because I found out how to do so just now. So now it's a thing I do. Shut up.

Almaz · Post by **Almaz** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:03 am

Shrapnel wrote:Anyway, there is then some stuff about... wait, aboleths ain't Dinosaurs!. I got the wrong damn page. Just a sec... I'm now writing whatever comes into my head. Oh god, please, Whatever, don't ever come in my head. Oh, here's Dinosaurs!. ...how saurischians also include ornithomimosaurs (I think I spelled that wrong), as well as the related dromaeosaurs, represented by West Side Dionysus.

Good to know the Greek god of wine is a dinosaur. I am now more educated.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:32 am

2nd edition's handling of their dinosaur infodump is just plain fucking weird. No one gives a fuck about the scientific names of these things in a DnD context. You don't give bullshit Greek names for Intellect Devourers or even Irish Deer, why the fuck is it so important to talk about that shit for dinosaurs? Really, the whole thing looks like the authors are trying to prove that they read a book more than they are trying to write one.

A discussion on dinosaurs in a DnD book should be completely in-your-face about Thagomizers and talk about fantastic locations you can actually meet them. It is a fucking fantasy adventure game, not a paleobiology lesson.

-Username17

talozin · Post by **talozin** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:05 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:You don't give bullshit Greek names for Intellect Devourers or even Irish Deer

I have to admit, there's a side of me that would vibrate with barely suppressed glee if they did. As long as they put slightly more effort into it than they did for the bullshit Latin names they gave the various dragon colors in AD&D.

Actually, the hell with it -- the next time I play a wizard in a D&D game I am totally referring to every monster we meet by some absurdly overblown pseudo-Greek or pseudo-Latin name that I 100% make up on the spot. "Ah, a group of Goblinus goblinus accompanied by an Ursus Bipedis bugburbianis. What a magnificent specimen! See if you can avoid damaging the hide -- the museum will pay handsomely for one that can be displayed."

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:06 pm

Actually, archivist works great for that. They make knowledge checks for bullshit bonuses already, so the mechanics dovetail nicely with being a gonzo zoologist.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:35 pm

Unicorn: equus (caballus?) monoceros
Red Dragon: draco chroma ruber
Intellect Devourer: cerebrum comedenti

Whatever · Post by **Whatever** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:03 pm

Shrapnel wrote:Anyway, there is then some stuff about... wait, aboleths ain't Dinosaurs!. I got the wrong damn page. Just a sec... I'm now writing whatever comes into my head. Oh god, please, Whatever, don't ever come in my head. Oh, here's Dinosaurs!.

Whatever floats your boat!

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:31 am

talozin wrote:"Ah, a group of Goblinus goblinus accompanied by an Ursus Bipedis bugburbianis.

Is the Goblinus goblinus like the Rattus rattus (a rat), or like the Puffinus puffinus (not a puffin)?

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:09 am

Almaz wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:Anyway, there is then some stuff about... wait, aboleths ain't Dinosaurs!. I got the wrong damn page. Just a sec... I'm now writing whatever comes into my head. Oh god, please, Whatever, don't ever come in my head. Oh, here's Dinosaurs!. ...how saurischians also include ornithomimosaurs (I think I spelled that wrong), as well as the related dromaeosaurs, represented by West Side Dionysus.
Good to know the Greek god of wine is a dinosaur. I am now more educated.

Some sages believe that Dino Dionysus is an ancestor of Raptor Jesus.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:50 am

It would be kind of cool to get a bunch of biological science bullshit details about D&D monsters. Hell, even stupid lifecycle information like is found in the Ilithiliad has a lot more enduring effects on D&D discourse than does garden variety fluff about necromancers and lost cities. The bizarre tirades about Neogi dissections and stuff in Lords of Madness are a lot more readable than Races of Destiny.

But the bottom line is that that only holds true for D&D monsters. I can get more dino-science from a children's coloring book than they can cram into the entry info in the Monsetrous Manuel. So while I would love to have an entry on Goblins take a paragraph to rant about how many sets of teeth they get and/or their femoral hip angle of attachment or something - getting that for real world animals (even extinct real world animals) is just authorial laziness and stupidity.

-Username17

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:57 pm

COMBAT!
It is through battle that we become closer to our Pokemon Dinosaurs!.

Oh, this is awesome. The entire section is more sciency-biology shit. The first paragraph for the Combat section is, get this... a discussion of how dinosaurs are a mixture of warm- and cold-blooded. They can regulate their body temperature internally (how?), but also depend on external heat sources, like lamps, or burning Pintos. They move slow in cold weather, blah blah blah.

Then it says that most huge reptiles have small brains but they are cunning, because this is the eighties and kids don't know jack about dinosaurs.

They need to eat lots of shit to maintain their big-ass bodies, and as a result, "sauropods eat almost constantly, and carnivores hunt almost constantly and also eat carrion." Sure.

Now, we get to a part that actually has something that somewhat has to do with fighting: It says that though carnivores are both voracious and ferocious, certain plant eaters are very aggressive in their defense, usually with armor or horns. And that's it for anything to do with fighting.

The last sentence, though, does raise an interesting point that's fairly enlightend for 2e: "Just because they do not eat meat does not mean that they will not kill other animals."

And that's the combat section. So, unless I'm blind, all of it clearly relates to how Dinosaurs! fight and kill things. Jesus H. Christ in a chickenbasket. It's things like this that make me wish I could drink.

Habitat/Society

Dinosaurs can be found in any type of enviroment, except desert, high mountains, and frozen wastes. Because theres no such thing as desert lizars and such.

I love this part: "They have no soceity (that could be true) and little family life (that is most certainly not true), with most species abandoning eggs before they hatch."

The thing is, scientists had discovered in the 1970's that most dinosaurs, actually cared for their eggs and raise their young. So it's not like this was new info or anything.

Ecology

Sages don't understand why Dinosaurs! went extinct on "certain worlds", but they do exist in the "lost lands" on several worlds. There may be places where dinosaurs have continued to evolve into different forms; they may be the ancestors of modern lizard men.

Some time soon: The various Dinosaurs!. Hopefully.

Count Arioch the 28th · Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:40 pm

I threw a T-rex at my players one time. I described it like this:

They didn't know what the fuck they were fighting.

Also, the rules for shooting into grapple are interesting, because the t-rex grabbed the duskblade and started running off with him. The ranger started shooting arrows at it, and every single one hit the duskblade. The joke was that it was a T-rex ninja.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:48 pm

where exactly is a duskblade in 2nd? wasnt that something made for 3rd, or was it in like a crappy settings like planescape or birthright?

wotmaniac · Post by **wotmaniac** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:05 pm

shadzar wrote:where exactly is a duskblade in 2nd? wasnt that something made for 3rd, or was it in like a crappy settings like planescape or birthright?

Dude -- context isn't your strong point, is it?
That particular bit of conversation was clearly about dinosaurs[/i]; and then only generically, at that (it just happened to have been spawned by the MC entry).

Or are you continuing with just trying to thread-shit?

wtf-ever ... pretty-fucking-please, just ignore the thread, already.

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:37 am

Hey Shadzar:

This is the bug that crawled up your butt.

Desdan_Mervolam · Post by **Desdan_Mervolam** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:33 am

The young enter through the anus and work their way to the head where they wrap themselves around the crebreal cortex. This has the effect of rendering the victim extremely resistant to suggestion. Later, as they grow, follows madness.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:34 am

Good jesus that thing is terror and horror wrapped up into one orange-legged nightmare fuel beast. (I speak of the insect Count posted; I love Good Ole Ricardo)

Anyway, Dinosaurs! time: I figure the next best thing to being suger-high is being sleep-deprived, so here I go.

First, the main stats for all Dinosaurs! (I've figured, What the hell, why not list 'em. Someone else will understand what they mean.)

ACTIVITY CYCLE: Day
INTELLIGENCE: Animal (1)
TREASURE: Nil
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil

Now that that's outta the way, let's move on to the...

ANKYLOSAURUS

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any land
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
DIET: Herbavore

-----------------------

NO. APPEARING: 2-5
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVEMENT: 6
HIT DICE: 9
THAC0: 11
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 3-18

SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SIZE: H (15' long)

MORALE: Elite (13)
XP VALUE: 1,400 (because of the GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL)

The Ankylosaurus is an "armadillo-like ornitischian", weighs four to five tons (or 571.429 to 714.286 stones), with most of the weight in the armored bits, side spineitys, and "great, knobbed tail". That's from the book; I love it. If attacked or threatend, the ankylosaurus lashes out with GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL, delivering really crushing blows jobs.
There is a related species called the paeocinthus, which has better plating (-3 AC), but does not have a GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL, instead having a clubbed one. Loser.

DEINONYCHUS

By the way, the Velociraptors seen in Jurrasic Park and shit?

Well, that and Utahraptors...

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any land
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Pack
DIET: Carnivore

-----------------------

NO. APPEARING: 1-6
ARMOR CLASS: 4
MOVEMENT: 21
HIT DICE: 4 + 1
THAC0: 17
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-3/1-3/2-8

SPECIAL ATTACKS: Jump, rake
SIZE: L (12' long)

MORALE: Steady (11)
XP VALUE: 270

This fast-ass carnivore uses it's fast-ass speed, it's long, grasping fast-ass forearms, large fast-ass teeth, and hind legs with their ripping, fast-ass talons to help cry themselves to sleep at night because they don't have a GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL. It hunts by running at prey, leaping like a freak, and raking with it's rear claws as it claws and bites, all the while feeling inadequte due to it's lack of a GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL. The jump is a charge, so the creature gains a +2 to attack rolls, which is a far cry from comparing to the Ankylosaurus' GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL. The rear talons count as only one attack, and cause a total of 2d6 damage, which is nothing compared to the damage dealt by a GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL. When attacking a larger creature, presumably one that also lacks a GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL, the deinonychus often jumps on top of it, and holds on with its front claws while continuing to rake with the rear claws and sobbing to itself that this could be so much easier if the Deinonychus just had a GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL. The deinonychus has a relatively large brain for a Dinosaur!, and its pack hunts with cunning tactics. However, the larger brain also means that the Deinonychys is even more aware of the implications that come from it not having a GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL[/i].
Despite being 12 feet long, and not having a GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL, this Dinosaur! is only about 6 feet tall. It's tail, which is neither GREAT nor KNOBBED[/i], extends straight out behind it, held aloft by an intricate structure of bony supports, thus allowing its 150 pounds (or 10.7143 stones) of weight to be carried entirely by the back legs.
The deinonychus is a dromaesosaur, which is a long way of saying "dinosaurs that don't have GREAT, KNOBBED TAILS, but are related to ornithomimosaurs, which include the chicken-sized night hunter (duh fuck?), compsognathus, and the ostrich-like struthiomimus, none of which are as formidible as the GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL.

Okay, lack of slep is not as great as I thought it;d bee. so I"m goanna end her e and continure sometime tomorrorow holpefully.

So, I'l laeve wiht this thoguht: GREAT, KNOBBED TAIL.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:54 am

Your obsession with great knobs aside, the Deinonychus is actually threatening to adventurers, since it can chase them the fuck down. With the Great Knob, all they have to do is back away and shoot the shit out of it- it is XP on the hoof.

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:00 am

http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=16

wotmaniac · Post by **wotmaniac** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:29 am

Shrapnel wrote:Good jesus that thing is terror and horror wrapped up into one orange-legged nightmare fuel beast.

When I was stationed in Hawaii, we used to catch these guys, and HPU would give us like $50 for each inch over 6" (or was it 8"? whatever):

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:01 am

Funny thing is if you keep centipedes, you need two tanks. You need to put a smaller one inside a bigger one. The reason is those fuckers can move faster than you can see, and if you don't have the second tank to slow them down they WILL escape. I think centipedes are cool to look at but I would NOT want one of those things running around my apartment loose.

Millipedes are chill though. They're chill detritus feeders, they just tend to be sensitive to rough handling (to the point I wouldn't recommend doing that that guy is doing in the second pic, if those things fall even half an inch they split open and die.)

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:00 am

I put a vote for the Ibis.